ETF Careers Podcast kicks off in collaboration with Women in ETFs

Mo Sparks leads the New York Stock Exchange’s strategic initiatives and related activities for asset managers engaged in the development of ETFs. Prior to joining the NYSE, he spent nearly a decade at

The Vanguard Group. Mo received his undergraduate degree from Clemson University and is a holder of the Certified ETF Advisor (CETF®) designation. Mo and his wife have two young boys ages 3 and 1 and when not talking ETFs he can be found traveling, enjoying sports (particularly basketball + golf) or enjoying the great outdoors. 

Robert Jaeger is a seasoned fintech entrepreneur. Currently VP Head of North America at Trackinsight, he drives product strategy and business development. His career began at Goldman Sachs, and he holds a degree in Finance and International Business from Washington University in St. Louis. Outside work, he resides with his wife and two daughters in Roslyn, NY, enjoying family time, tending to his succulents, tennis, and cycling.

Kristine Delano guides the conversation about the importance of providing transparency into the careers guiding the ETF industry. 

Listen on your favorite podcast platform. We Talk Careers Podcast.

Follow on Instagram: kristine.delano.writer 

Visit www.womeninetfs.com to find additional support in the ETF industry. 

Go to www.kristinedelano.com for your Thrive Guide: a compilation of the most requested and insightful advice from our guests on Leadership and Advancement.

In partnership with https://www.etfcentral.com/

Book recommendations: 

• Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson
• Oh crap! Potty Training by Jamie Glowacki
• Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy (Podcast)

Transcript of the episode

Kristine (00:01):

Welcome to the We Talk Careers podcast, presented by Women in ETFs. I am Kristine Delano, and I am delighted that you have joined me. If you are striving for excellence in your own career or interested in the hard work required for a career on Wall Street, this podcast is for you. We have made all of this advice easily accessible. You can obtain your own Thrive Guide, which includes a workbook on leadership skills, at kristinedelano.com. So, set aside your extensive to-do list and let's find inspiration. We are beginning a new season of the We Talk Careers podcast. In this season, we will be exploring careers on Wall Street, specifically in the exciting field of exchange traded funds. We have witnessed unprecedented growth in innovation, and we are thrilled to showcase the careers that contribute to this progress. Each episode will feature two guests who hold the same role at different firms. We are eager to see what we will learn today. Joining us are Mo Sparks and Rob Jaeger. They are the inspiration behind this season. Welcome, gentlemen. It is a pleasure to have you here.

Now, Mo, let's start with you. Could you please introduce yourself to our listeners?

Mo (01:15):

It's a pleasure to be here. I'm Mo Sparks, a director of Exchange Traded Products at the New York Stock Exchange. On the personal side, I'm a married father of two young boys who are almost three and 10 months old. They are the most important things in my life. Behind that, there's my involvement in ETFs. I'm excited to share my perspectives and experiences in this industry. I've worked in helping asset managers launch their ETF businesses with the New York Stock Exchange. It's a really exciting place to be as this industry continues to grow and flourish.

Kristine (02:01):

Wonderful. Thank you. And Rob, how about you?

Rob (02:04):

Hey, Kristine. Thanks for having me today. I'm Rob Jaeger, a Vice President at Trackinsight. I'm responsible for our North American business and enterprise business units, where I work with banks, exchanges, and asset managers to develop custom ETF solutions and support their growth. Similar to Mo, we both had our children around the same time. I have a three-year-old son and a one-year-old daughter. We're living on Long Island, and I've been in New York for most of my life. Now, we're basing our family here as it grows.

Kristine (02:42):

Wow. Young fathers. That's fantastic. You know, good luck to you both. <laugh>

Rob (02:47):

Thank You. You know, it's controlled chaos.

Kristine (02:52):

So Rob, we talked with Mo early on about what a season like this might look like in examining the various roles within the ETF space. Mo take us into it, why was this important to you?

Mo (03:07):

Yeah, so I think, Kristine, I give you an immense amount of credit, first and foremost for kind of coming up with this idea of bringing a level of transparency to the careers that make up our ETF industry. I think, many people see kind of the common faces out there on the circuits talking about ETFs, talking about ETF related businesses, but there are so many people behind the scenes that make everything happen, right? And so when you brought this to us and we could start to figure out a way to partner, I think all three of us got really excited around, you know, the conversations that could be had and the journeys. I think that, you know, I'm very much a person who enjoys hearing individual stories. I mean, I still remember I started my career at Vanguard, and, you know, part of that process that was so fun was spending time just meeting really good people who would take time and share their perspectives, share what the journey looked like, discuss that non-linear path that is a career. And so, you know, bringing that to other people, I think is something now that's a passion of mine. You know, I think is sitting at the center of kind of the ETF ecosystem and ETFs. We like to think of ourselves as connectors. And so there's just such good alignment with our day-to-day of helping to bring the stories together. So this is a season that I'm particularly excited about. I've enjoyed the ones you've had in the past and all the guests that you've continued to bring us. But you know, selfishly, I think this is the best yet to come.

Kristine (04:37):

Thank you, Mo. What about you, Rob? Anything to add as to why we're launching this?

Rob (04:42):

Oh, absolutely. You know, I think it's such an important topic in such a dynamic industry. The growth that the ETF market is seen in the US in particular has led to the growth of the way that these businesses operate. And I started in the business in 2005 at Goldman Sachs on the ETF trading desk. And back then, it was a much different model. You know, there was around 300 billion in about 250, 300 products. And you know, from there, the sky's the limit. And then in the roles that I've been in, through my career,  in and around ETFs, I've always been working similar to Mo with these asset managers in various functions, helping support them and their business initiatives. And in doing so, I learned so much more about their operations and, and about how they, you know, define roles and responsibilities. And given that it's been so fluid and evolving, I just think it was a great opportunity to bring some light to the various functions. And lastly, Mo said it perfectly, the non-linear path of a career. Everybody has their own arc. And, we oftentimes get in our head and think, Hey, this is you know, the path I need to follow. And if there's one thing I've learned recently in my life, there isn't any one path. And I think that that's where, you know, just having a good network of people sharing your stories, learning from others has been incredibly useful for me. And to be part of this made complete sense.

Kristine (06:17):

Oh, I love to think of it that way. So my background is actually neuroscience, that's my undergrad degree. And then, I was on the way to med school when I did two years with Teach for America, and, working with some engineering firms that helped me in my science classroom. I ended up going back to graduate school for engineering, which was completely not part of the plan, and then figured I would be an engineer, right? 'cause now I have a master's in engineering and instead, you know, find my way into a broker dealer and into the world of finance and eventually into ETFs. And I just think, you know, so many people come to me and they say, you know, I wanna break into this, but I don't have this, or I don't have this education, or I don't have this certification, or I haven't done this. And I just think, the world of ETFs with its growth has really allowed so many people with various backgrounds and skills to sort of find their place. And I think maybe one of my fears, which I'm hoping this series helps alleviate, is this idea that we're gonna become very traditional in what people have to do to get where they need to be. And I think the power of the innovation that we've seen in ETFs is because we've pulled people from all these different places that think differently. So to me, that's one of my motivations for assuring that we have this season. So I love that you guys both talked about that. 'cause I'm not sure that's something that we've necessarily addressed before, so that's fantastic.

Mo (07:44):

Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I think one thing that I would maybe add is, you know, I'm a kid from Montana, right? So I grew up in Montana, you know, have had the journey kind of across the country to South Carolina, and then I crawled into North Carolina, and then I've marched north into, you know, Philadelphia and New York City. And now actually I live in Providence, Rhode Island. And, you know, when I talk to others, I like to start with that because, you know, my dad was a basketball coach,  my mom was a stay-at-home mom and my dad then became an entrepreneur. And that shapes everything that I do day to day, is I take the mindset that I can think I learned from my parents of just go try things, right? And I think that's so important as one starts their career and as they continue to move through their career, I think we'll talk a little bit more about that. But I think it's just worth kind of double clicking into, as you mentioned, your story of obviously coming from a very different educational background. I think it's also regionally so important to kind of think through that mindset and then appreciate that as well.

Kristine (08:46):

Absolutely. So, Mo, how do these episodes fit into your overall quest at the New York Stock Exchange, you know, for education? How does this all weave into what you're already doing?

Mo (08:59):

Yeah, I think it fits really nicely. So, you know, many probably wouldn't appreciate from afar, our focus is really twofold, right? We like to say we're the E in ETF. So first and foremost, we wanna ensure that our exchange is, you know, the best place that an ETF can trade and list, and that we've developed al, the right programs to ensure that an individual investor goes out and purchases an ETF, they get a fair price for that, or an end allocator. And so that's one, right? And then two, where we actually spend an immense amount of time is just helping our clients tell their stories, educating on who they are, what perspectives they can bring to the marketplace, how their products may fit into an end allocator's portfolio. And as we took the big step backwards, really about two and a half years ago, we kind of came to this realization that, you know, as the exchange and as kind of a platform for listing, the thing that we can focus on more than anything else is just to ensure that the, the industry continues to grow.

And I often use this term, we wanna ensure that the pie continues to grow, and that's what we wanna invest in. And so to us we need to drive education for more people to understand what ETFs are and the benefits associated with ETFs across this industry. I think a lot of us obviously recognize them, but I continue to be surprised as I have conversations with peers that are outside of our industry. And you mentioned that, you know, the acronym and they still don't know what it is. I mean, I've heard the reference, the T-Mobile, a commercial, I think it was early termination fees, right? And so some people still think of that in that lens, and that just gets to, yeah, we're 30 years into this journey, but there's so much more that needs to be done. And so if we can focus there, then I think that the whole industry continues to win and we benefit because of that.

So, you know, it's obviously in many ways as all things are self-fulfilling, but it's a thing that we can get behind and be really, really excited about. And so, maybe the last thing I would kind of say along that same vein is we have partnered with Rob and the team at Trackinsight in one capacity to bring something called ETF Central to market, which is now a destination website for end allocators in ETFs. And so whether you're an individual that's self-directed, or you're an RA that's going out to go through the due diligence process, it's a resource that you can use, right? It's got things like intuitive screeners that are very basic. You can search terms actually, like you'd go to Google, right? And return results on what ETFs kind of match those terms. And so I think that's a really powerful thing, and we combine that with two other elements.

One is the perspectives of our clients. And so we create a lot of content from our broadcast media capabilities at the corner of Wall and Broad that we can put onto that site with various partners that we've established over the last number of years. And then the final thing is, we are really excited earlier this year to kind of strike a partnership with the ETF Institute. And so I think many across our industry know someone like Nate Geraci for his ETF Prime podcast, a fellow podcaster, and the insights that he shares with the various clients across our industry. But he had established this core curriculum for ETFs and had begun to build that kind of in the middle of covid. And I was an observer of it, and was really excited about what it could mean for our industry, education is so key, to your question.

And so,  we brought that under our umbrella at the end of March and the first quarter, and now we have something called the CETF designation, right? It's recognized by FINRA.  You can go out and go to ETF Central to kind of learn more about what it entails, but it's a commonplace where everyone, whether you're a practitioner in our industry or you're an end allocator, you can start your journey to better understanding ETFs. So that's, my tie it all together, is we come to that moment. I think that's the important thing. And the thing that we're also just very, very excited about.

Kristine (13:05):

Thank you. And I'm excited about ETF Central and your focus on growing this. This is exciting. So Rob, what about your perspective from Trackinsight? How does this all weave in as well?

Rob (13:18):

Well,  without repeating everything Mo said, because that was precisely what brought us together,  to build this partnership and launch ETF Central. So again, growing the pie, providing best in class tools and data and analytics so that allocators and self-directed investors can easily sort through the myriad of products available today. And I think this ties to something else, that I think we've already touched on, which is just the entrepreneurial nature of this business of the ETF industry. So the market is moving very fast just in the last year alone. I mean, the list of new products that have come out, it's staggering. So we've gotta keep pace,  with promoting, bringing the content and the data to the market to make sure that both the consumers of ETFs are empowered with the information they need to research, identify, and select ETFs, but also provide the capabilities to the issuers who are looking to build, their brand and target their messaging at the right demographics.

So we're just very excited, and especially with the initiative with the ETF institute, because now there's a standard curriculum where you can get that FINRA designation. So it is a journey. It's been one that started when we went live a year ago, and we have a lot of hard work ahead of us, but with a clear mission. We are clear on our next steps. And part of it is, participating in this relationship with you and the careers podcast because again, we're all operating in the same industry, but doing such different things. So why don't we spend some time now educating ourselves around those functions. So I hope that addresses your question.

Kristine (15:09):

Absolutely. And it just makes me think through, you know, a few weeks ago when we were talking about doing this and, you know, launching this season, you know, we went through and said, okay, we're gonna have these first 12 episodes. You guys are the first just to even just scratch the surface of the jobs that are available in ETFs. Like, what do these careers look like? And, what do people actually do? And you know, at first I was like, wow, you know, where do we even start finding guests? I'm sort of inundated with guests on the show often, but, you know, on a daily basis, there's a number of people that reach out to me, which is fantastic on different topics, but how would we pick two portfolio managers to talk about it? So we partnered with Women in ETFs and other folks in the industry, and we had dozens and dozens of people submitted for these roles, and we were able to, you know, kind of come down to various people for each episode.

So take us through what advice you might have for some of our guests coming up on the show. So from all that you've said about this role of education, the importance of keeping the entrepreneurial spirit, the importance of transparency of what this ETF marketplace looks like for end investors and for folks within the industry, but also we've got a number of folks, listeners and others that you know, are just investors and interested in the world of Wall Street. What advice do you have for our guests coming on in terms of the things that they should be sharing about their careers or how to talk about it?

Mo (16:45):

I'm happy to start. And you know, Rob will come up with his unique things behind me, but I think first and foremost, I've seen the guests, they're phenomenal. So I'm not sure what to tell them other than to just be honest and transparent, share their stories, right? I think that's what everyone wants to hear, and that's why I appreciate this medium so much. I mean, I'm an avid podcast listener, very diverse with what I listen to, but it all comes down to, I enjoy this medium because it's a place where I can come and relate to people, and I can understand what that journey looks like. So share it,  because people actually do care and wanna learn. And I think what you're gonna find is people are gonna come behind and ask questions of you, right? And want to get to know you more.

And that's an opportunity to establish new connections, and to me, continue to just grow a stronger foundation of this entire ecosystem. That's what so much of this is about. To me, I'm eager to hear what others have to share, such that I have a new point of conversation with them moving forward. I think there's a lot of individuals on the list that I've seen, I engage with on a regular basis. There's some new faces, but I know in both places I'm gonna learn new things that are gonna allow me to forge a relationship. They'll just be that much stronger on the personal level, but I also think professionally as well.

Kristine (18:00):

Thank you. And Rob?

Rob (18:02):

Yeah, I would just add one specific thing. I love the stories because as we spoke earlier, no path is the same. You know, even if you and a friend share the same role at a different ETF issuer, let's say, the way you got there is probably much different. And oftentimes there's two things that play into these random events and relationships. And I want to hear about both of those. I wanna know about people that have impacted you, people that have helped you, because frankly, that's what makes this industry special. I remember going to the Inside ETFs event, oh my gosh,  dating myself 18 years ago, 17 years ago, and it was small, you know, and now at the, the predecessor to that event where you have thousands and thousands of people, you could just see how vibrant that is and how important the relationships are. So hearing those stories, understanding how they've maybe faced and overcome adversity as well. Because oftentimes, as, as we've said, it's not a straight path from point A to point B. And those are the things I'm most excited about,  listening to, on this series.

Kristine (19:13):

That's great. I was thinking random events, and I was just hearkening back. I don't even know why this came to my mind, but I remember one of the first things, first tasks I had working for a broker dealer. I was a consultant at the time, coming from engineering, right. You know, so I wasn't even in the world of finance, but I was tasked to take things that were disc based to being online, right? And so we did a whole bunch of human computer interaction, human factors work to get to the point of like, what is the most important information that we need to present? And with a lot of fanfare, you know, it was like this first website that came out that was, you know, protected, but advisors could log in to get the information they needed. And, you know, so exciting.

And one of the first comments I got was the creator of, this needs to be demoted to the mail room, <laugh>, this doesn't work for me. And I just thought, oh my goodness. You know, it's like, you know, before, like social media was such a big thing where, you know, you've got your detractors, you know, I get this like email and it ccs my CEO, you know, so it's not just to me, you know and he's like, what are we doing? And why? You know? So anyway, I ended up having a conversation with my CEO where I was able to take him through where we were and what we were doing and why we thought this was a bigger trajectory on the design of information for financial advisors. And it was one of those random events where had that email not been sent, I wouldn't have had that audience, which wouldn't have propelled us into designing better for our financial advisors.

And, you know, and it's funny because I met that advisor years later. You know, he was one of our, you know, biggest users, oved everything we did, but change is hard, right? You know, that initial thing of like, you don't get access to this anymore. You need to use it this way. Those are difficult things to do when you're busy and having to make changes. But I just remember that as like that random event that, you know, had that email not come in, I wouldn't have gotten that, you know, opportunity to have an audience. So, I love that. So I definitely encourage our guests to, to share those little moments, that are inflection points in careers for sure. So we have this great opportunity of having you both on this because you both have jobs that are rather unique in the industry as opposed to, you know, being an analyst or portfolio manager, head of ETFs, those types of more known, I guess, titles within the industry that, you know, there's multiple people that can speak to it and can help with the trajectory. You guys are unique. So Rob, you wanna take us through what a day in a life looks like for you?

Rob (21:54):

Sure. Well, a day in a life,  for me starts with first opening up my inbox, seeing emails from both my teams.  So again, just to take a step back, Trackinsight is a global ETF data and analytics provider. And we've built on top of this global ETF database, a number of destination ETF websites around the world. My particular focus is on ETF Central and working with the US ecosystem,  in the industry. So when I come into work in the morning, check my inbox, look at how our development team is doing on new releases for the website,  I look at emails and analytics related to the performance of our product, look at the pipeline of work that we are doing on behalf of issuers who are both,  partners and sponsors of the platform. And then troubleshooting, of course, because with technology, I think we all know, probably just logging onto a Zoom or a Teams meeting, you know, technology's imperfect.

Kristine (23:48):

Thank you, Rob. What about you, Mo? What, what does a day in a life look like for Mo Sparks?

Mo (23:53):

I think like many, it starts on the phone and it's just a question of if I'm talking into the phone or if I'm staring at the phone, right?  That's where it all begins, but no, for me, most days actually start, I'm one that believes very much in continuous learning. And so, you know, Rob references,  looking at things that are happening across our industry, and I think I give in the neighborhood of five to seven daily newsletters that I just spend my first 15 to 20 minutes consuming. And it just gives me a good baseline for where everything's going. And it's not just across our industry, it's broader than that, right? It's the political landscape, what's happening. It's obviously what's happening across the capital markets more broadly or economic things. And then, you know, I get into sports. I'm a basketball fan.

I obviously referenced my dad being a basketball coach. And so,  I often get, you know, two to three minutes looking at the ESPN app or something like that, just seeing what happened the previous day. Because more than likely these days I was in bed and asleep by nine or nine 30 <laugh >. So I, I'm starting my days early, but they end pretty early as well. But then as it pertains to the job itself, right? It is very diverse, right? First and foremost, my days are spent helping others.  I like to think that my role is really just answering questions. And those questions can come from a really large asset manager who has, you know, specific questions on maybe a trade that happened the previous day, or a regulatory change that could be happening, or a news item that were out there to a question from a first time issuer that's maybe an RA or a wealth manager that's looking to wrap their own ETF and try to understand, well, what does this even mean?

Who are the other people I need to be talking with? Right? To questions from liquidity providers on, you know, the programs that we have and the incentives that we're creating for the broader ETF ecosystem to ensure that things are aligned. Then the conversations I get to have with all those parties and Rob. And a lot of what I also spend my time on is some of the more strategic items for our business. And so, yeah, a core component is managing the relationships and answering the questions. But the other side is we've launched a website for ETF investors. We've invested in the CETF and the ETF Institute. We've created a lot of different channels for our clients to tell stories. And so it's thinking, what's the next thing that we can be doing? I often kind of describe it as my role is to find the white space in our industry.  And that's what I really, really enjoy doing.  I think it goes back to the comments I made earlier of coming from a family where it was very entrepreneurial. I think that I approach each day as an entrepreneur trying to figure out what's the next thing I can do, not for today, but for tomorrow, right? And then if tomorrow is not always just actually tomorrow, it's like five years from now. and I think that that's a really fun place to be, and that gets me really, really excited.

Kristine (26:54):

Oh, that does sound exciting. Thank you, Mo. So, as our loyal listeners know, beyond being an independent fund trustee and sitting on a few boards, I am also a writer. So when we started this podcast over a year ago, I was sort of finishing up my Wall Street suspense manuscript and, you know, editing and I knew my first step was to find a literary agent. So I signed with one this summer, which was really exciting because they're the gatekeepers of all things. She is an amazing agent with the Steve Lobby Agency, and they only work with the big publishers. So that means that it might not be my first novel that gets signed, but, you know, eventually we'll get there. And so it's exciting. We'll be going out on submission this fall, and, you know, I simply love the space I worked in, and I love the idea of trajectories and suspense and just sort of figuring out yourself. And so I love writing about it and reading about it. So I am an avid book reader and consumer of all other forms of communication as well. So my question to all of my guests is always, what is a current book you are reading? So, Rob, let's start with you.

Rob (28:12):

I just received a pre-order on the Elon Musk book by Walter Isaacson. It is a classic Walter Isaacson book. It is long. So again, I have a one and three year old, so I start reading at night when they go to bed, and 15 minutes later I'm out.  So I can't tell you how good it is, but I cracked the first chapter. Elon is a guy I followed from the early days. He's just an incredible innovator, very unique personality, extremely entertaining. And Walter Isaacson is an amazing biographer. So,  it was an obvious choice for me.

Mo (29:03):

Well, first off, congratulations obviously on, you know, the personal accomplishment of getting the agent and making that kind of transition that's really exciting and something that, you clearly feel, very passionate about. But you should also, you know, feel very accomplished. I, myself, I try to write, I'm not a peer writer. I think it's something that we all need to try to do more of. I tend to write things like commentary over what's happening across the industry than, you know, stories. But I think that that's a good place to start. But more specifically to your question, I'm gonna go in a completely different direction than Rob. Because of the two young kids, I don't have quite as much time, but the last book I actually picked up in a, in a digital form, naturally was Oh crap, Potty Training.  And so <laugh>, you know, someone who has two young kids.

We just went through the process of getting our oldest potty trained. And he is well on the journey, thankfully. And oh, my oh my, does it make a difference! I'm eager for the 10 month old to start going in a potty. But that was the last one I actually read. But I am a podcast listener, and so, you know, I would share one of the podcasts that I very much enjoy, that I think is more aligned with, you know, probably the audience,  is Invest Like the Best by Patrick O'Shaughnessy. I think Patrick does a phenomenal job of one, getting really strong guests,  but two, just providing transparency into our broader industry and all the individuals that are there. I just listened actually the other day to, you know, a replay of a piece that he put together with a few different of his favorite guests, one of which is someone that I admire, Sam Hinkey, who that name may mean something to some people for others.

Like who's Sam Hinkey? Sam Hinkey was a GM for the Philadelphia 76ers. Well-known for kind of tanking in, in changing some of the rules associated with how the NBA thinks about the incentive systems and the alignment. And now he's on his way. He's founded a hedge fund, a private equity firm. But I really appreciate the conversations that Patrick had. And, you know, one of the things that Sam shared that I thought was really good and is good for this forum as well, is Sam is laser focused on people. And he shares this perspective of he wakes up every day trying to surround himself by better and better people. And he's almost like ruthless with who he spends time with. But I think it's a good reminder as you kind of go through your life and your career. So much your parents tell you early, like associate with the right individuals that are making you do the right things and yeah, that matters when you're a teenager.

But it also matters when you're a young professional and you're starting that career journey and you're trying to figure out, you know, what is discipline in the workplace, what does that even mean? How do I go about the learning process, right? And finding the people who, not only your peers, but are a few steps ahead of you that are doing it the right way and learning from them. And then it applies to where all of us are now. Like it, it applies very much to me and, and who I tend to spend my days with. I'm trying to find people who are gonna push me personally in new directions, but then also push the business in a new direction and allow us to create things that we didn't think we could create, right? ETF Central is a perfect example of that, never thought we'd have a website. Now we have a website. So I think there's a lot of good lessons in all the things that we consume.

Kristine (32:27):

Oh, I love it. Thank you. Well, that's such a great way to sort of end our show today and just thinking about those people closest to you, that you are a reflection of them, and I was just talking to my 16 year old about this, that the friends that he keeps are a true reflection of who he is. And that does not stop, like you said, when you're a teenager, it is throughout your life. And if you're gonna surround yourself with people who think differently and want more and do it ethically and with kindness, then that's who you will be as well. So,  thank you. Thank you for that. And thank you both for spending your time with us today and kicking off this new season. I so appreciate both of you.

Mo (33:09):

Thank you for having us. Agreed, likewise, super excited for what's to come.

Kristine (33:13):

Me too. Thank you. And thank you, our listeners, for spending your time with us. I hope this is not just information, but you let it be transformational in how you think about your career. I'm rooting for you. If you're an Apple user, I'd really appreciate it, if you took a few seconds to leave a rating and review. Your ratings and reviews, tell Apple that this is a podcast worth listening to. And in turn, your reviews will help WE Talk Careers, get in front of more listeners looking to succeed just like you. And while you're there, go ahead and hit that follow button because there's gonna be another brand new episode and you don't wanna miss it. Until then, keep thriving. Thank you for listening.